Wednesday, December 13, 2006

Weee....Just [Looked Like We] Went Out of Business


There are a few businesses that just bug me, and one of them is Pa Pa's Southern Smoked BBQ. Right from the get-go this business annoyed me. They spelled Papa's Pa Pa. They have a little ugly pig on their sign. They have their little saying, which can only be said in the Cheeth's Little Kid From The South voice. Finally, and most importantly, they're not The Smokehouse. This is a shortcoming of pretty much every barbeque place west of Texas though, so it's tough to fault them for that. Unfortunately, as a connoisseur of barbeque, just existing isn't enough. I had tasted the sweet sweet taste of good barbeque on trips to Florida and Texas and some random place with bush league sauce just wasn't going to cut it. I have the same beef with Goodwood. Sure, the name is classic, but their sauce sucks. On top of that, they price their meals like they're gold plated. Anyway, I thought I saw some big crowds in Pa Pa's, which was unfortunate. Nevertheless, I drove past one night and it was quite dark with the only vehicle in the parking lot being a semi trailer. That's what happens when you're a start-up no-name barbeque place going into a former Tony Roma's (which also sucks, but that's beside the point) - too big a location, IMO.

EDIT - 3/6/08: a while back they moved across the street, so it was just a temporary relocation.

16 comments:

Anonymous said...

Sorro,
Speaking legally, (hint, hint) you need to check your facts before you put somthing in print that is false, especially on the web. Pa Pa's Southern Smoked BBQ never went bankrupt, the owner of the building they occupied wanted it back and they had to relocate. The owners are not very happy with you and they made that very clear to me when I consulted with them yesterday. It would be very beneficial to your financial well being to remove any reference to bankruptcy from your blog. I will be checking every couple of days to see if I need to pursue anything further with you on behalf of my client. I hope I have your attention. I sincerely have no desire to meet you in front of a judge.

Anonymous said...

This is your 2nd warning. Remove the reference to bankruptcy in your blog concerning Pa Pa's Southern Smoked BBQ or face the consequences.
I will be meeting with the owners of Pa Pa's again on Wednesday. I will ask them to be generous and give you until next Wednesday to make the approriate change in your blog. If you choose not to then most likely we will be meeting in court. Oh, by the way, if you think I don't have the ability to find out who you are, think again.

Anonymous said...

This guy is an idiot anyway...Come on The Smokehouse???? They suck and so does their food. Its assholes like you that make this valley a real shitty place to live!!!!!!
Get some taste buds and a palate too...Smokehouse sucks!!!!!

Sorro said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sorro said...

Anonymous (you of the 3rd comment): You have your right to your opinion, you just happen to be wrong. As far as my palate being the reason for Utah Valley being a bad place to live...I'm sorry that you hate Utah Valley. I would recommend moving elsewhere if you hate it as badly as you do. The last thing we need is people who hate it so much who continue to live here just so they can continue hating and being miserable.

Sorro said...

Anonymous (why not use your name, Mr. Lawyer Whom I Don't Know Who You Are?) (the first 2 comments), I came across your post today because of the 3rd Anonymous comment that popped up with a lot of blog hits on this post yesterday (3/5/08). I don't check my comments every day if the post is "below the fold." Perhaps you could sue me for libel for a headline that mentioned they went out of business when they didn't (although by the time they started back up, this post was long forgotten) and as a result of your request, I have changed the reference because something like 6 months later they went up in the old Leatherby's location and it is inaccurate. You have to admit that when you never see any cars in front of the restaurant and then suddenly you see semi trailers hauling off the equipment and then nothing (without a "we've moved" or anything of the sort...that looks like out of business to anybody who's passing by and not actively looking at Chapter 11 or Chapter 7 filings.
At any rate, you would have been well served to have not been so belligerent in your comments, especially the second one where you seemed to think that I have nothing better to do than go through 300+ posts of old comments daily and ferret out yours and change that. I don't know when you did this, if you are still checking the comments, or if you are trying to find out who I am still so you can slap a lawsuit on me. Nevertheless, had you been more gracious and not threatened me, I wouldn't have been nearly as caustic as I have been towards Pa Pa's in them. You can rest assured that even though (let's assume I missed this for a year here) nothing has come of this, Pa Pa's has created (barring some sort of crazy pow-wow with me where they want to bury the hatchet) the kind of anti-promoter that most places dread. Yes, I will be making sure that everybody I know knows exactly what I think of them.

Sorro said...

This is merely to subscribe to comments on this post. Nothing to see here.

Oh, but if you want that pow-wow, I would be happy to edit things and/or make a new post or whatnot based on the results of it...I still will give you a chance to make me, well, probably not a promoter, but at least not a detractor if you would like it.

Sorro said...

I know I'm just commenting to the comments at this point, but I honestly don't know what to talk to as I don't know when the last post was. Nevertheless, if Boyd Atterbury is the owner that sicced the lawyer on me, then perhaps this is all a moot point. If it's possible new owner guy, then maybe not. Perhaps it was spurred on by a Google search brought about by what people might see when trying to buy the business, as for some reason beyond my comprehension, I am in the top 10 listings under a search for Pa Pa's? At any rate, whomever it is, the offer stands. If you never see this again, I'd be a happy camper (as long as I don't hear from your lawyer or someone serving papers either!)

Anonymous said...

Sorro,

Thank you for your sort of appology on my phone. Of course you remained anonymous because you don't want to be sued. Well geting an attorney was the only way to get you to respond and consider your slanderous comments under the shield of being Sorro, being an anonymous name. If you have to hide your name are you any different than my attorney that did not give his name?

My mother told me a story many years ago about slanderous gossip. She said to get a basket of feathers and throw them in the wind. Then go and try and gather the feathers up again. We both know that this is impossible. Your comments likewise can not be recalled and obviously you never intend to do so according to your last comments. So your appology is moot as well.

I am sorry that you did not like my chosen name nor my food. Perhaps with your superior attitude you never really experiences the south. A grandfather is called Pa Pa not papa. I am called Pa Pa by my grandchildren and they are the ones that named the business. As for my pig and logo, perhaps you have never had a cute pig to love. I have had many. As for my food, I guess your Texas experience makes you an expert on BBQ. My southern customers said that it was the closest to anything they remembered and many said that it was better than anything they had eaten in the south. My BBQ and BBQ sauce I ship to Mississippi because they say that it is better than anything that they can get there. The only reason that we opened Pa Pa's Southern Smoked BBQ in the first place was that friends who loved our food suggested that we could share food from the south with others. It was not just for the money.

My mother also told me of a mother who was watching her son march in a parade and commented that all of the marchers were out of step, except her Johnny. He was certainly in step with himself but out of step with everyone else. Perhaps your name is Johnny and was in that parade.

I have a wall full of positive comments cards about our food. It is strange that I have only received four negative cards. One didn't like my sign, one didn't like my pig and two didn't like my food. The ones that didn't like my food did not have to pay and were given replacement dinners. There was not one negative comment about my BBQ sauce and never was it said to be catsup. For those who wanted it hotter we gave them some Louisiana Red and they were happy.

We were also awarded not one but two awards from the people of Utah valley who tasted our BBQ. We had many followers.

As for closing our doors, my wife and I are both in our late sixties and our health could not sustain the 15 hour days 6 days a week any longer. We plan to return to Mississippi where the people are friendly and appreciative and not superior nor judgemental. At least if they don't like something they don't try and put someone out of business.

I am not afraid to use my name.

Boyd Atterberry

Sorro said...

Boyd,
You are right that I remained anonymous and that I didn’t want to be sued. Of course, the comments that were originally posted are currently outside of the statute of limitations in the State of Utah, but the fact does remain that I don’t want to mess around with it. I maintain that the vitriol following the post that was added yesterday when I discovered your lawyer’s threats would not have occurred had you originally posted and asked me to correct my incorrect headline. It is like war…when you start out with a nuclear missile, you can’t expect a popgun in return. As for my nom de plume, I post under it to maintain my family’s privacy.
My original comments cannot be recalled, however, there are indeed things that can be done. I am more than willing to do things up to and including the following, assuming that we can work this out in a civilized manner: create a post that runs at the top of my blog that apologizes for the incorrect post title (and perhaps even some of the opinions expressed in it – all that depends on how amicably this can be resolved). That would actually reach more people than the original post, as my average page views in December 2006 were only 1/10 of what they are now (and that includes the times this post has been accessed by someone other than you, your lawyer, or I). I could also further amend the post, removing comments, removing the edit from yesterday, and even removing and actually editing (as opposed to just striking through and amending) the post to portray things in a much better light. Really, it all depends on if this gets resolved well. As far as if I intend to or not and whether or not my apology is moot or not…I direct you to my first paragraph here – you don’t bring a knife to a gunfight, and I didn’t intend to. If you were going to threaten me, I would respond with as much as I could that didn’t cross a legal line, while correcting the specific error cited by your lawyer. As you and I are the only two who have seen this post since it was updated (and quite possibly will be), all of these actions I feel are more than ample to undo any minimal damage that this may have caused for you. If you don’t, if you could propose something, I would be open to suggestions.
I haven’t really experienced the South, depending on what the South is to you. I’ve been to Florida, Georgia, Florida, and Virginia and the best barbeque I’ve had is from Texas and Kreuz Market (and I’ve had a lot). I didn’t understand the etymology behind the name and can see why you chose it, but it doesn’t make me like it either. I didn’t have a pig to love, but whether I did or not, the pig has and does annoy me. I know that doesn’t change your opinion and you may care, or you may think that I’m an idiot. That’s fine, opinions are like rear ends – everyone has them. We won’t find common ground on either of those topics.
On the food, again, we have a difference of opinion. You and your friends and your customers like your food, I and others I know don’t like it. Again, there’s not much we can do to change that – we have different tastes, and that’s okay. You have a lot of customers who love your food and have won awards, and good for you. It won’t change my mind, but if it means that you have been successful, then that’s wonderful.
That’s a nice story, but my name is not Johnny and I was not in that parade. I was in a different one and I was in step with the people in that.
Saying your sauce was ketchup like might be a little exaggerated for effect, but I found it to be bland – along the lines of a mass market sauce like Kraft or KC Masterpiece. It’s fortunate that those who wanted some kick were happy with some added Louisiana Red, but KC Masterpiece + Louisiana Red is not equal to good sauce, in my opinion.
After seeing your lawyer’s comments, I did some research on who you were and came across your ads to sell the restaurant. It would be nice if you could sell it, and I am sorry that your health is failing you. For the record, I didn’t ever try to put you out of business until you threatened me – it was more like beating a dead horse (as it certainly looked to me back in December 2006 that you were out of business).
In private conversation, I would be happy to use my real name (as long as you’re not still trying to pursue litigation against me), I just prefer to use a pseudonym on the great World Wide Web. I suppose that the ball is now in your court.

Sorro said...

As you may note, I have made the first move on this post. I'm waiting on the rest to see if that is what you want before I do anything else.

Anonymous said...

Sorro,

Again I am sorry that this has come to you feeling threatened. I never intended for you to feel that way. In fact I have long dismissed my attorney in this regards. I never intended to bring any harm to you. I have felt the sting of your words and didn't feel that I desirved any of your first comments. It is one thing to have an openion and another to defame a person because of your openion. I felt very hurt by what you stated.

Another part of the story, that you are unaware of, is that one of the main purposes for my starting a restaurant was to raise money for a non-profit school for those of whom I have been working to help for the past 9 years. I came to Utah to work with children who are attention deficit in hopes to make a difference in their lives. I am a licensed professional counselor and have worked with these kind of children for the past 20 years. But there is little money available through grants etc. I have been able to help a few but their needs still go unfunded. So your damage goes much further, as many beleave that your words are true about my food and have never tried it. Therefore, I have failed again to rase money for these kids.

You had no way of knowing when you threw the feathers out and I can appreciate that. I only wonder what your intentions were when you wrote what you did. If I don't like a restaurant's food I don't go out to run them out of business. If their food is not to other peoples liking they go out of business on their own.

Some of the comments that we received after we reopened was that they had tried all of the other BBQ restaurants while we were closed and they were happy that we were opened again. Again it is all a mater of personal taste.

We never reached the volumn that we had had before. Perhaps some of that was my fault and some yours. When we received an eviction notice they gave us 30 days to vacate the building. The new owner did not want to renew my lease because he wanted to devide the building into smaller units. The only place I could find in close proximity was the old Leatherby building. The big problem was that Sussie's had taken half of the kitchen, the bathrooms and the power pannel which was in their unit. It took 6 months to get re-established. I couldn't put a moved notice as I didn't know if Leatherby's would work out. I went from 26,000 customers in 2006 to 13,000 customers in 2007. Even after we closed we had customers stating that they had just found us again and was wery sorry that we had to close.

I had a new buyer but it didn't work out as he lived in Treemonton and would have had to move to provo.

It is debatable how much damage you have done and if it has effected any interested parties. You may get you wish by my having to declair bankruptcy. What ever happens I will survive and move on to Mississippi. I understand that there are attention deficit kids there that can use my help. I am on Social Security and retired from the Air Force so I can get by and still be able to help a few kids that need it.

Again I have meant you no harm.

Sincerely,
Boyd Atterberry

Anonymous said...

Sorro,

I had another thought last night and since you have not responded yet, I thought I would throw this at you.

You never indicated how to provide Utah County with this mouth watering BBQ from Texas. If you have an in with this Texas source, why don't you buy my restaurant and bring it to Utah County. I'm sure that if it is as good as you say than you would provide a great service to Happy Valley.

Boyd

Sorro said...

Boyd,
The more I hear from you the more that I wish you the absolute best. We may disagree on BBQ, but I do appreciate you not moving on the legal route. Quite frankly, when I first came across his posts, I took a look at where I was on Google when I did a search and was absolutely shocked. I really didn't think that I would have any authority (and the traffic to this post - other than us - has tended to bear it out, fortunately). I am sorry for the hurt you caused, it was too strong and should have been reviewed, certainly after you went back in business. I waited for the doors to close (so I thought) to say it because of the possibility with it at the top of my blog that people might see it.
Nevertheless, I commend you for your intentions. Your work with children with ADD is to be lauded (and might I actually recommend a CD that may or may not help those children that you have been working to help - it's called ADHD Management from a company called nuphonics - www.nuphonics.com - and I've actually seen it get some good results.) and as I have said, the more I talk with you the more that I appreciate the person you are.
It is unfortunate that the building owner booted you out like they did (I personally think it was a mistake with the volume you mentioned on top of the length of time it's taken to get that building renovated). I hope that you are able to find your buyer and get what you want to care for you and the children with ADD that you work with.
As far as the BBQ goes, I have thought a bit about it but unfortunately it's not something I could do. I'm not an entrepreneur by heart and to import the meat from Texas is just a bit too much. On top of that, I am working my main job and trying to assist some family with another venture, and my wife would kill me if I took on anything else (because I couldn't leave what I'm currently doing, I like it too much). I will however see if I can find anybody else who might be interested in real life.
Best of luck in any event!
Sorro

Anonymous said...

Sorro,

Forgive me for being judgmental. Throughout my life I have been the brunt for many bullies. My mother, who was a single mother, tried to instill in us, myself and two sisters, an appreciation for music. My mother sang on the radio with her brothers in the 30's. She loved to sing, write music, etc.. She instilled in us that we could do anything if we put our mind to it. So I started singing at an early age and loved to sing. When it started to hurt is when kids started making fun of me for singing. When is Junior High our music teacher encouraged me to sing in a talant show. Because of the comments of the school bullies I started skipping school so I wouldn't have to hear their comments. I beccame an A in music, F in algabra student.

We moved in the 10th grade to Rye, Colorado. There was 16 kids in my class, 65 total High School students. I dressed different, coming from SLC and trying to fit into the numbers, I dressed like they did. Well dressing like Elvis Presley in a group of cowboys doesn't fit in very well either. This time it started because of my dress. The Senior Class twins decided to pour turpentine down my rear end in the first period, the first week of school, which was shop for me. It burned like fire and stank badly. Of course they thought I'd fight them. Instead of fighting I just calmly accepted the challange.

To my supprise this eppisode turned on them and I became one of the most popular boys in the school. The girls all felt sorry for me and took it out on them. I should of learned from that but I don't remember any more bullies from then on.

When I read your blog about my restaurant I had that old bullied feeling come back to me. My first reaction was to fight what you said, rather than understand what needed to happen.

Another tallant that my mother and the Lord gave me was an ability to cook. She was a professional Chef and we had a restaurant in South Salt Lake when I was 14. I cooked on the night shift and learned to love cooking almost as much as singing. I had one customer that would wait until I came to work so I could cook his steak. I had developed a nack for cooking it just the way he liked it.

Through the years I have cooked for church activities, fund raisers etc. In Alabama, after I retired from the Air Force, we cooked BBQ chickens to raise money for the church building fund. We would cook 1000 chickens every 3 months and people would ask when we were having our next fund raiser.

My life has taken me down many roads. I have a Bachelors degree in Electronics, a Masters degree in Counseling and was a Master Sergeant in electronics in the Air Force. After I retired from the Air Force I could not get a job in counseling because I didn't have any experience so I went to work as an EE with Sony. This did not satisfy me so I went into business in Florida as a heating and air conditioning and electrical contractor. Finally after 5 years and a lot of hard knocks I had an opportunity to get a job as counselor in Louisiana. I closed my business and moved to Houma, Louisiana.

It was in Houma that I found my nitch for working with ADD children. One of my major obsticals in life has been dealing with the ADD in myself. When I started working with these kids I saw myself and understood what they needed. After getting my license I opened a school for ADD children and had a lot of success. Then I came across a new group of bullies. The Licensed Psychologist thought I was taking their patients away from them and accused me of practicing Psychology without a license as a Licensed Professional Counselor. I became the brunt of a war between professions and they were successful in placing an injunction against me. APA wanted to prevent all LPC's from doing any kind of testing for disabilities. This is what we were schooled and trained for. Anyway Louisiana Psychologist succeeded in putting me out of business. So I moved to Utah where the Psychologists and LPC's aren't in a turf battle.

I started my school again and had good success until insurances decided that a school was not in their approved payment so parents had to pay the total bill. That is when I tried to get grants to support this program. I received a lot of nice letters from different foundations such as the Huntsman Foundation. They said that they had pledged all their money to the cancer program and hoped the best for what I was trying to do. So that pretty well ended the money trail.

Another reason I felt that I had been bullied again by your blog was that I had prayed for direction in helping these kids that need help. When I was told to use the talent that he gave me I felt that a restaurant was the answer. At my age it is too late for American Idol and singing. So I again turned to the Lord and He gave me the BBQ recipe. This may sound strange and certainly different but there are ingrediences in that recipe that you won't find in any other recipe that I have found. It has a natural preservitive in it as it does not require refrigeration and does not spoil. I can't explain it. Another thing was that it has been so well liked by most of my customers. In the restaurant business, the old saying of you can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people all of the time holds true. I ate a bad Big Mac one time and I have a hard time buying another Big Mac. My grand kids love Big Mac's.

So I have given you a lengthy reason why I felt the way I did about your blog. To sum it up I felt bullied again and wanted it stopped. Frustration can cause one to do a lot of things including getting an atorney to try to stop it.

I feel different about you now and feel that you were trying to stress a point that you didn't like my BBQ sauce. I wondered why you could write uplifting blogs and still be so critical about me. That doesn't matter now as the damage has been done and we will both have to live with it. I only hope that the next time you write such a negative blog that you will try and find out more about the person that you are writing about.

I really have forgiven you and hope that you can do the same for me. The Lord will provide for me as he has done in the past so life goes on. I guess that that my helping kids with ADD will have to wait and if it is to happen a way will yet be provided.

Boyd

Sorro said...

Boyd,
I absolutely do forgive you. I appreciate you coming on here and discussing things with me because I think it's been fantastic. The first reaction usually is fight and I think we both had a little of that in us. Nevertheless, I appreciate your kindness and forgiveness of me. Thanks again!